Welcome to this week's episode of money with Alpha. I'm really excited about this because I've been talking and talking with Lana about getting her on to the podcast. So welcome, Lana. Yeah. Hi, Alpha. And I'm actually so glad we kind of found the time finally. Yes, I know. We were.
We were having a chat. How we met actually was our daughters were both at the same school, and you probably, if you've been listening to my podcast for a while, you probably picked up that. My daughter and I've been on a bit of a journey trying to find the right school for her.
And when she. When she met Lana's daughter, it was. Yeah, they got along so well. And the last conversation we had, I was like, whoa, you are a powerhouse. Wealth of information. I really need to get you onto this podcast and, um, unpack some of this because you're, you know, that silent waters run deep kind of person.
Yeah, uh, totally. Yeah. So I'd love to hear a bit more about. I mean, I see you a lot on social media, and I know a bit about what you do, but it's. Is probably best coming from your mouth. So can you tell everybody a little bit about what you do to start with, and a bit of your journey, of how you've got there as well?
Yeah, no, absolutely. So I ended up running a digital marketing agency. Uh, and we kind of, uh, opened the agency maybe about five, six years ago. And, um, I stuck to it, especially, like, when Covid happened, it seemed to be, like, the best idea, because I always wanted to have.
The reason behind the whole business, uh, model that we run is we really wanted to pursue the freedom, and that would be the freedom of time, freedom of location, freedom of, like, having your own place or working from any place in the world. So freedom of traveling eventually, um, and all that.
So that was the whole idea of why we decided. Before that I had a local business, and I, uh, really felt that it was the time that I wanted to pursue something that would give us all these abilities and not be tied up to some, like, certain place. Yes.
Yeah. And you guys, you do do lots of, um, traveling, and you work with your husband as well, which is something else. I want to ask you about how that works. But, um, I love seeing this, um, caravan type thing that your husband actually built. Yeah, actually build the thing because we couldn't buy what we wanted to buy.
We really wanted to have, like, a small scale, but all the small scale caravans, we just literally have three beds and a convertible bed into table. So that we can sit inside if we wanted to eat. Um, but we created it for. Exactly. Going away for two, three nights, four nights, like, probably not a longer time travel intended.
Um, but at the time, we just couldn't find, um, a thing. And every other caravan was like 1950s, 1970s was too old. So that's how we ended up building one and learned the lesson on that, too. Yeah. So it wasn't an easy project. Took him five years to actually do it.
Wow, that is, yeah, that's commitment. But it's interesting, and this is something that I work a lot with my clients, and I know it's important for you too, is clarity, because as soon as you have the clarity of what you want and the problem you want to solve and then how you want to do it, it makes it so much easier to actually get in and do it.
So what sort of clients do you work with now? Because it's probably evolved over time. Yeah, um, kind of. It's interesting because when I had an idea to build this business, I actually decided to combine two of the areas of expertise I had at that time. One is fitness, where I've been in for a lot of years in different roles and perspectives, like sports and yoga and all that stuff.
Uh, and marketing, where I've been probably about 20 years in as well. And I thought, well, I have experience in both of them. Why not to take and combine, make a fusion, uh, and really dive deeply, because I could literally see it. It's not only for fitness, but as a marketer, I can see.
I could see even six years ago, you go on the website and, oh, my God, a lot of things can be improved and so easily, and, uh, a lot of things can be done in a very simple way, but they are not done. And I thought it's a huge gap.
Um, and I jumped on that kind of trend. Yeah, that's fantastic. And so what did you find when you were starting out? What were the things that you found the most sort of useful, because obviously we do lots of stuff and not everything is helpful, although everything ultimately is.
But what were the things that you found to be the most, um, important to shift you forwards? Yeah, that was the interesting part, because when I had my own yoga studio, I actually did my own marketing, and I did, like, do it yourself. Um, I did advertise because my background in marketing is advertising.
And I actually run, like, I worked for procter and gamble for a number of years and run like million dollars campaigns and all that, like tv commercials, specifically what I was doing. Uh, and because of that background, I am very passionate about advertising because it has a lot more power compared to organic marketing, word of mouth and all that stuff.
Yes. So I decided that leveraging that is like kind of what interests me. And, um, another thing is I really like human psychology. Like, I really like to understand humans behavior, and purchasing behavior is one of the parts in advertising. Yeah. And so who did you, like, did you, you had all this knowledge and experience.
Did you find networking helped you, or did you join other coaching groups? Like, how did you kind of, I suppose, start to get the word out apart from like the more organic way? Mhm. Yeah. Um, so when I got started, I actually joined a coach, like the coaching program.
And I think that was one of the best things to do. Like a lot of people are delaying. Uh, and I was one of those because I tried to build my other businesses and I had three or four of them before this one, or maybe even more that I don't remember now.
And, uh, I've never kind of looked at investing seriously. Nothing like thousands of dollars, maybe some courses, maybe some stuff and more kind of watching stuff for free on YouTube or things like that. But at that time, I just had a feeling, I got a jump on something and I did, and I've never regretted that move.
Yes. Yeah. No, it's amazing. The, uh, I remember when I first started out, I had like the free versions of as many things, like the free version of Zoom, the free version of canva, the free version of Colendley. And then in the end, I was like, you know what?
It's just making my life harder than easier and it's actually preventing me from making money. So rather than say it's that. Yeah, different, different mindset. But yes. Yeah. And talking about mindset, I grew up with do it yourself mindset, it was the hardest thing for me to beat, if you ask me how I grew is by beating my do it yourself.
Like I constantly ask myself, do I really have to do it? Or there is someone who is doing better, uh, than me and I can ask for either their expertise or help. Yeah. Which is what you sort of sell now, really is you've got this expertise in an area that other people may not have, and a lot of business owners, especially if they're doing something that they love and they're in a studio space, like, oh, I love my business, but all the backhand stuff or the business development and the sales, it's just not my cup of tea.
So if somebody else can do that better and help bring me business so I can help more people then. That sounds like a nice marriage. Yeah, no, it does sound like a nice marriage. And, uh, unfortunately, only a few people actually understand that because, um, there are a couple of really good books to maybe recommend to read.
But one was that about the sarah that was baking. Um, I'll send you the link. I don't remember the essential. Um, yeah, anyways, if I remember the book's name, the story is very simple. Uh, the person was really good at baking, but not necessarily was good at, uh, other things.
And she just kind of let her business go in a direction that she hired someone, uh, who was doing everything for her, but then that person left m. And then what? Like, and things like that. There has to be a healthy blend. I encourage every business owner to actually be savvy in terms of their marketing, in terms of their systems, business strategy.
You can't be just good at what you do. Well, I love my, my, a lot of my clients, they just so deep into what they do, they love their yoga or gym or whatever they have. I have a lot of clients, like, even, um, kitchen renovation space and other, like, areas.
They just love what they do. But it's a not sufficient to run a successful business. You really got to look behind and become part of it, because even us as an agency, helping a client, we really want clients who understand and not just rely as to, like, okay, I've given you that now.
It's not my problem. It doesn't work. It's a really, really, really powerful point you mentioned there. And I was literally just at a, uh, networking function, having a conversation about this with somebody, that empowerment piece and how you want people to understand, you know, they need to. And it's a little bit like with the money space as well, that you cannot outsource your money to an accountant, to a, uh, financial advisor.
You can't outsource all of your stuff to somebody else. You still have to understand it because it's ultimately, the buck stops with you. Um, so you don't have to be a specialist in it, but the specialists that you hire, you want to hire the specialists that want to make sure you understand, which is what I love about what you do as well, because there are a lot of specialists out there who are like, don't worry about it.
We'll take care of it. Just give me your money and we'll, you know, you don't have to worry about it. I was like, yes, they're the people I worry about because I want. I want my clients to understand the whole purpose of what I do is empowerment, and I love that that's your model as well.
So, uh, do you find that when people come to you, they've. Been burned in the past. Um, and that's why they're coming to you, or they just genuinely, they do really want to outsource it and they don't want to understand, like, how do you find the clientele that comes to you?
Yeah, the majority.
Ah.
And that's the unfortunate statistics. So, statistically, 90% of businesses close down by three years time. M. This is a sad thing. The reason why they close down is because first of all, they tried, uh, to do everything themselves without necessarily, like, they either had to search for expertise, external expertise, and learn themselves.
They didn't do it. And they really thought, it's an old model to think about. Like, let me open my doors and my customers will come. Maybe some time ago it was the truth, but not anymore. Like, you really are in some sort of competition, so you have to understand how to promote and put yourself out there.
Yeah.
And, uh, so the first reason is that they were doing it themselves and they just burned themselves out. It's very easy. Running business is not that kind of task that is enjoyable. In any case, you have too many things on your list. And the second reason, uh, or luckily, if they hire us or someone else look for help before the burnout happens, because after that, it's really hard, um, to actually support.
And a lot of businesses are not profitable. Even three years in, they haven't seen a dollar in, and they are working a day job still, uh, hoping that their business will kick off one day, but it won't unless they actually will make some changes. Right. So that's one of the perspective.
The other type of decline that we have is usually people who've been already there a lot of times. And these are the savvy kind of business owners, and they know and understand the investment, and understand the risk of the investment, like, overall, and they don't mind that, and that's just because they don't wanna do it themselves at all.
Like, completely want to be hands free. Just because some of my clients have businesses, other businesses that are even more successful than their second or third business.
Yeah, yeah. No, it's interesting, actually. There's such a variety. And you work a lot overseas as well, so you're in other time zones all the time as well.
True.
Yeah.
Unfortunately, I have to wake up really early. But I think, uh, although I say unfortunately, I'm kind of feeling really good about it. The decision was made instantly. As soon as we opened that business, um, I hired a coach from the United States. And this is the day when I like, first of all, I realized if you bring income from overseas, you are not liable for GST tax.
Mhm.
10%. Okay. So that's one thing that held me, like, there. The other thing was, is that us is a really big market and, uh, you truly can advertise there. Not. I'm not saying that you can't advertise in Australia. You can, of course, but it's a smaller market. Let's take it.
Um, and, uh, it's harder to hold.
Australia fits in, like Los Angeles, if not exactly.
Yeah.
Or something. I heard that statistic recently. I was going, oh, my goodness.
There you go. Yeah, that's the number. So, um, and that was another decision. And the third decision, we're using a specific CRM and we're using a lot of SMS marketing. And up to date, unfortunately, SMS marketing is five times more expensive in Australia than in the United States. So these three factors led me to actually reevaluate my strategy.
But currently we're working with clients like in Canada, Australia, New Zealand. We have truly a, uh, big spice of english speaking countries clients.
Yeah. And you've moved beyond just helping studio owners, too, because you mentioned kitchens there, renovations before, so you've gone broader in terms of. So I guess that's another thing, too. Like, how do you see niching? Because I hear different perspectives on, you know, whether to niche, not to niche, to uniche in the beginning, and then you can broaden later.
Like, what's your perspective on that?
Um, my perspective is always to probably niche down, especially in the beginning, because you really got to work out something. You really got to be really good at one thing and stand out in that and be confident in your results so that you can, uh, provide that confidence or your guarantee or whatever else to your clients.
And that's what we did, and that's why I stepped from fitness plus marketing combined together. Um, but then naturally, what happens was the other clients, not that we kind of try to get these other clients, they just come to us because of the word of mouth or previous connections.
And sometimes it makes sense for us to take an e commerce project or a, uh, bathroom renovation client or any other client, because, uh, of when we evaluate them, if we know that we can do well, um, then why not?
Yes, no, absolutely. Uh, it's funny, that's the answer that makes sense to me. Because when I first started, everyone's like, oh, you need to niche down super, super narrow. And you're like, okay, all right, we've got to get clear on what the problem is that we're solving, first of all, and whose problem that would be.
But then later on, you see people, like some of the biggest, bigger people in various industries, really diversifying. Um, like, I see one lady who used to be in the money space, and now she's very much in, you know, like, productivity. And I was like, wow, that's totally different from what you were doing.
But they've built up a reputation in that space, so it's all built up a reputation, and now they can kind of diversify maybe into the areas they really wanted to. So, yeah, that's really interesting.
Yeah.
Um, I have a question for you about working with your husband. How do you find that?
That's a really, really good question. So I started, I was working by myself, like actually in my computer room while in the majority of times, while Vika was asleep or at school. Like, this is like mom's stuff that I was doing in the beginning, I didn't have any help.
And I, uh, think, well, I started hiring help just so you know, about ten years ago, and I have really good experience about hiring people from overseas. And that was one of the leverages that I used in order to grow the business. Um, and, um, how that happened is that literally that was the goal, to fire my husband from his day job.
And, uh, about three years ago, we felt like it's time to do it. And we, uh, kind of did it and started working together. Uh, it's a very hard topic to overall see whether that's a fit or not because there are a lot of things and you are adding a level of complexity.
So for anyone looking to do it, I would rather recommend to really think about it and evaluate, because, uh, to the partner relationships in your family, you are adding a layer of business relationships, and you never know what is going to work out and how it's going to work out.
So, um, it wasn't always like rainbows and butterflies, all the things, uh, sometimes it was difficult to understand. And for him especially, he actually changed the role completely from doing things with hands coming back to the office. And he's a, uh, graphic designer by his kind of previous profession.
So he does have, uh, a lot of experience in that. But not doing it for about ten years, uh, was quite different. So he had to find his ground and all that. Um, eventually we found our, uh, kind of terms and, uh, how we build the company currently. And it's not only related to myself or to my husband.
Yeah, to everybody who works in our team, we just see what they are good at, including myself. What am I good at what I really enjoy doing, and I keep doing what I really enjoy doing. And especially if there's, uh, like, high level tasks and things that I can't really pass on, but I enjoy doing them, so that's totally fine.
And we just see what people are good at and give them more of that, because it's not like sometimes you find, we hired a person for business development, finally, he's doing all the technical stuff, like all the funnels, all the automation, AI, all that stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's interesting because I literally was having conversations last week with people saying that they didn't want to scale their business beyond a certain size because they didn't want to deal with staff, because they'd had a business previously where they'd had, like, 15 staff, and it was a nightmare. And they're like, I don't care if I don't grow too big because I don't want to have any staff.
But you seem to have managed to find a really good equilibrium in that space, and you haven't necessarily gone down the traditional path of hiring, like vas in the Philippines or anywhere else in the world. What have you done and why do you think it works?
Okay. Yeah. Been there, done that. And I understand why people are going through the nightmare. Done a lot of mistakes in hiring people from India, Philippines, and stuff like that. And, yes, we made a decision after a while that it's probably not our path, because essentially, I look at it from that perspective.
If my client can't talk to my staff, and I have to hide that fact that somebody is working behind the scenes, it's not a good stuff. Member, uh, like, and overall, we don't even have employees. Technically, they are contractors, and we treat them with a really, um, like, in a respectful way, they, our team members.
And I'm surprised on how committed all of our team are. Like, on how. How much they invest and how much they even stay over time when they don't have to, and nobody even asks them.
Yeah.
And, uh, one of the biggest factors that we take into account, people that we hire, a. They do live overseas, uh, outside of the major countries, primarily for the economical reasons, because as a business owner, I'm looking for the leverage. I don't want to pay someone who is in our country, for example, that's going to be way more expensive.
Um, the second factor we have is these people had to leave in the US, or study or extensively, spend some time to understand the culture.
Yes.
Speak the language, flow properly. Exactly. Even if they have.
Like a slide accent. I do have a slight accent because English is not my first language, but so what, like, I mean, you know, we're gonna understand each other. Yeah. So, uh, that's the same point that we took into account. And our people, they do have approximately same, like, level of English, and if they don't, we just kind of feel that we don't want to deal, uh, with them because we literally found that our team is our family.
And of course, if you're building, like, because we are building a lifestyle business as well. Yeah. That's completely different from building, like, all this, you know, cold company where, uh, you don't know why you come to work, and they don't know why they come to work and all that.
They are our family. We have fun meetings, we hang, we play games. We, I don't know, we chat with each other. We know our lives, like, in and out. So it's more kind of an extended family at the moment rather than, like, strictly relationships of an employee, um, and an employer.
Yes. Oh, that's really good. And it's nice to hear a different story because I so often hear the, oh, it's too hard. They bring their problems to work, and it's just. Yeah. Um, so, no, I love to hear that other story. So what are your plans for your business?
Is it. You've said it's a lifestyle business. Is the plan eventually to sell it down the track or, um, because you've built it as a. As a brand rather than your names so you can do that? Was that intentional? And what do you, what do you want to do with the business down the track?
Yeah, initially we called it on tap. Digital. Exactly. And not by my name, just because I wanted to build a brand, which, uh. And currently, I don't even, um, often. Not often that I go on a call with a client because I'm not the face of the business as such.
Like, yes, we still do the sales and all that, but I, uh, I really want my team to stand out in that, and that was the purpose. Uh, however, we don't have. At the moment, we don't really have, uh, an idea of selling the business. It's just too early, I think, being where we are, even, I feel we are like a baby still, although we are making decent income and all that, still, it feels too early to even.
Yeah. Ah. Especially in the digital marketing space, things change way too quickly, just way too quickly. And you really have to follow the trends and be on top of that. So it's kind of riding the wave and surfing. Yes, but that's business, isn't it? I was just like, oh, my gosh, it's this free for all constantly.
And do you find with, because you have a real system that you use? Because I often hear that term, oh, people are throwing spaghetti at the wall. Um, and to a certain extent, when you're starting out and you have to test the services or products that you're offering, you don't know what's going to work until you try it.
So there's a little bit of that, but in the marketing space, obviously, it's a lot more systematic. So what do you kind of see as the key to, like, if somebody was early on and they needed to really boost to get their business more stable, what would you say are like the key kind of pillars or foundations that they should be focusing on?
Yeah. First of all, is your vision. You really need to understand what you're building and why. Like, answer to yourself honestly why you're building. What you're building is going to be hard. And if you don't have the why, you gonna regret it pretty quickly. Yes. Um, the second part is look for leverage.
Leverage is the most important, and I learned it hard way. But I always knew my leverage. For example, advertising is my leverage because I can show it to math. Like thousands of people can see the ads compared, uh, to organic marketing. Yes. Uh, or we used automations right away because that takes a lot of manual work out of the process.
And, uh, finally, people, that piece has to be in place because without help, you're going to burn out really quickly because you won't be able to take days off and all that. And it's just going to be unhealthy. So these were the most important, uh, but the classic systems, uh, processes and people remain in place.
You just have to figure out those three pieces for a business to work. Yeah, yeah, because also, if you open the floodgates and people come in, you're like, oh, do you have all of the ability to handle all the business? Right. Yeah. You know, is it just going to completely drown you?
And you'd be like, oh, what do I do? So, yes, no, it's important to have all of those pieces together. Um, so how do people find you if they want to work with you or find out more about what you do? How do people do that? Um, it's super simple.
I think if you just put Lana Sunina in Google, he'll find me. But you can just do so on, um, Facebook or Instagram or just type in on tap digital, you'll find our website and all that. Uh, totally. I'm more than happy to provide like a free consultation for anybody who's coming from your circles.
Um, and possibly one thing that I really wanted to talk about, what we discussed in our meeting when we caught up, um, is how to use, like for example, currently we have one performance based campaign performing really well, like given really good results. And I remember you mentioned you wanted talk about it.
So overall, uh, this campaign could work for any business and you could be in an advantage if you have a database of your previous leads or inquiries, like people who have not converted, although they provided their details and things like that. Yeah, talk to us because we have that campaign where, uh, if we are confident, we will take you on board.
And uh, usually we charge a little setup fee, but coming from this circle, that going to be like a zero setup fee. Like nothing, you pay nothing and the outcome, you get new clients in. So that's kind of exciting. Part because you pay nothing and we only collect like usually part of the payment or things like that as a service fee.
So that could work extremely well. And, um, that's where like one of the models that we've introduced, although we've been doing it for five years, we've just officially introduced it, uh, probably just a year ago, and have had, uh, amazing results with that. Yes, we were having that conversation you mentioned.
So do you have to be using your CRM? Like the CRM system that you guys use to do that? Or if people already have their own, can you still work with their CRM? Yeah, we usually always do our CRM just because it again comes to systems, processes and people in place.
I cannot teach every person a new system in a process, so that's probably, uh, how it ties up. But then at the same time, it's fully done for you, so you don't have to do anything. Yes. Oh, that sounds very, very nice. It's one of those things, everybody wants new business because I've done paid ads in the past and I've got leads, but they don't convert, so they're just sitting there.
Difficult. Yeah, and we are conversion specialists, so I know it's difficult to convert. So you have to have a lot of pieces in place in order for that to happen. And that's where we talk about systems. Like using our specific CRM allows about 1000 micro conversion events, if you can imagine that.
So that converts a bit better compared to just lead gaming. Yeah. And so what about like lead magnets and things? Like that. Does that come into this too, because that's converting existing leads, or do you also have, like, the systems where people put up a lead magnet to gain leads, to then convert them?
So that sort of steps, if you ask me, I am a direct marketing person. Like, I really like to put an offer that is attractive enough to start working together right away. And, um, in many cases, we suggest a paid offer. We don't suggest to our clients to do any pre offers and things like that, but that's what we do.
And if people want it, they will take it. Yeah, yeah, no, it's interesting because I. And again, the cultures are a bit different. Like, I've been in masterclasses where we've had some Americans present about, you know, doing, like, the tiny offer kind of concept, but it's always paid. Um, but here, I think we hear a lot more about, you know, free lead magnets.
Constantly, people then just absorb all your free stuff and then that's it. Yeah, both of them work. I found that personally, lead magnets take much longer and much more expensive to convert. If you have, uh, the ability to invest into that and time to wait, by all means. It's a really good method because people will be more nurtured.
Yeah, yeah. Yes. That's an organic versus paid kind of concept, really. But I. I mean, for a lot of us, in the beginning, we just have to hit the ground and start making some money. And, um, I was listening to a podcast this morning where they're like, oh, you do this and you do this, and then you'll be at six figures.
I was like, yeah, it's not that simple. Not that. Oh, you build it. Here's your expertise, and you have to put worded email together, and all of a sudden you'll get $50,000. I was like, what world are you living in? Yeah, quite often there is a lot of over promising goes in, especially marketers circles.
Yeah, that's a lot of that stuff happening. Uh, to instill you into the idea. Yeah. Which is why a performance based campaign is such a great idea, because you have the confidence and then there's the results to back it up. So everybody sort of wins together. Yeah, exactly. And without too much risk, because otherwise it's thousands of dollars, like any agency charges.
Thousands. Yes, that's it. And that's a big risk for many. Yeah, yeah. No risk on both sides, but, yeah. Oh, that's so exciting. There's so many things there. So definitely, highly recommend you at least be following Lana. Reach out to her and. And just. Yeah, it's. It's such a.
It's a great way to make sure that businesses actually grow and become profitable as quickly as possible. Yeah, yeah. Feel free to reach out, even if you just wanted to have a friendly chat. I don't mind that. So. Yeah, I'm more preferring voice messages, just so you know, because of my time constraints.
But I'm happy to give any, like, tips and hints if I have them. Wonderful. Thank you so much, Lana. I really appreciate your time. Uh, and everybody, have a wonderful week.
