Hi, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of money with Alpha. And today I'm joined by the lovely Kylie Hayes. Hi, Kylie. Hi, Alpha. Great to be here. I'm very excited. Thank you. How are you? Very good, thank you. Um, I met Kylie a few months ago, actually, through a networking group and we really clicked and, yeah, we just literally had to kind of stop ourselves from chatting to hit record because we could just keep talking and talking.
Um, but she's a very intriguing person. There's so many aspects of what Kylie has done in her past and what it's sort of morphing into now in her business, and I thought it'd be a really great story. Um, so, and rather than me trying to talk too much about it, kylie, can you share a little bit about your journey?
Because you started out as a mathematician who's turned into a consultant who runs a winery, which amazing wine, by the way, and then has now morphed into other work as well. And anyway, I might get too much into it because I'd love to hear your words on how this has all happened.
So please share your story. Yeah, and it's when you say the path like that, uh, it's an interesting one, but probably my life philosophy. And I've, um, said the same thing to my daughter who's about to graduate grade twelve is I've just followed the door that made the most sense, opened a door and walked through and started, uh, right back.
Uh, in high school, I loved maths and so went and did a maths degree at uni. Not having any idea what a maths degree was going to do, but I figured if I did what I loved, then I'd do well in it and a door would open and a few doors open.
And so I ended up, huh, moving into management consulting. And, uh, so I got to travel the world and had an amazing career doing that, um, which was, um, for those that sort of aren't familiar, big business, so big corporations, big government, and going in and helping them work out how they could, uh, do things more efficiently, utilize their staff better, um, implement it solutions or other process changes to just make the business run more effectively.
Um, so I really love that a lot. Lots of, um, different jobs within that because you're different, working with different organizations probably every 1218 months or so. Yeah, so, loved that. But, uh, my husband did the same thing. And so traveling all the world, around the world was great when we were in our twenties, but when, uh, I wanted to have children, it wasn't going to work.
For both of us to be doing that. So I decided to, um, step out of that career even though I loved it, um, but chose to spend the time with the children. Um, so I was a stay at home mom for, uh, quite a few years and that actually then brought me back to my love of maths, um, because as the children started learning and just, I guess a love of learning, so watching them grow and all the different things they have to learn was, um, yeah, was just fascinating.
So, uh, yeah, it sort of brought me back to my love of maths and uh, in the meantime, yeah, we started a winery. So my husband, uh, how did that come about? Because I've always wanted to ask you that. So I know I sort of interrupted you in there, but it's quite a, quite a deviation from, you know, the math.
And I love, I just want to point out, I love the fact that you followed your intuition because I spent probably about a good decade miserable because I didn't, I listened to my, you know, the fear driven messages from my grandmother and my mother. But anyway, so you get to the point now and you.
What, how did the winery come about? If I can just take a step back, um, because, you know, I assume there's probably some mums listening along the way. Um, I owe a lot of credit to my parents, um, because I was actually, um, I had got the score to be able to get into, um, medicine at UQ.
So, uh, I did well in school and was all booked in to go because I grew up in, uh, north Queensland. So I was booked in at college and everything and just because that was sort of what everybody expected. And so I, I really look back now as a mum and as an adult that my parents totally supported me when I came to them and said, what am I doing?
I don't like anatomy and biology and all that sort of stuff. I love maths and at the time I'm pretty sure they would have thought I was throwing my life away, um, you know, having a daughter who was going to become a doctor and then she said, now I'm going to go study maths and what do you do with the maths degree?
So, yeah, just for all the, the mums and parents, dads as well in the audience. Um, yeah, trying to, trying to hold it back and trust your children or find their path. Yeah. Contain your own personal fear. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's, it is tough because I'm now at that point with my daughter.
But yeah, I just keep trying to remember what my mum and dad did for me, so. Yeah, yeah. But you also had the courage to speak up and say something like, I think a lot of us don't. Like, I know in my case, I was like, I don't even know.
I would have stood up to my parents for. I was like, well, I, uh, love traveling, but I can't exactly make a career. I didn't want to be a travel agent, and, you know. Yeah. So it's having a level of clarity, which is important. Um, but, yeah, I was.
If I think back now, I don't even know what I would have even stood up to them on. So, yeah, it's good that you even knew and that they listened to you. Yeah, well, yeah, I guess I just focused on, what do I enjoy? And my daughter's going through it at the moment.
It's like, okay, well, pick subjects that you enjoy, and you'll work it out as you go along. Yeah. Well, because it's an interesting distinction, too, because in my case, I was always good with numbers, and I liked numbers, but I didn't really enjoy the jobs that went with the numbers side of things, like accounting, for example.
I was really good at it, but I didn't really like it. I didn't enjoy, but I enjoyed the people side of it. So, yeah, it's interesting when you. You've got to get used to dissecting and reflecting, and if you're not taught to do that, then it becomes really hard.
So it's. Yes, it's taking. It's have. And as a parent now on that journey with your daughter, you'd be like, so, what do you enjoy? What do you like? Because they're often two different things. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, the university I, uh, was at, you know, were very keen for me to continue with maths, you know, because I did an honest degree in maths, and they wanted me to continue.
I was like, no, no, this. This doesn't. I, uh, love the maths. Yeah. But I can't see this as a career. I needed to be more involved with people and. Yes, and in management consulting, it was all about problem solving. It's like, well, I can do that. I can break down a problem.
And same thing now with business as well. It's problem solving. Oh, my goodness. Big time. Yeah. So that was ultimately the underlying skill that I loved learning, and I love solving problems. So I've just transitioned where. Where I'm putting that. That joy that I get from it into different parts of life.
Yeah, yeah. Which is nice, too, because also there's that stereotype about your mathematicians or numbers people, that they're not also people people. Yeah. You're like, well, you can have both. So breaking the stereotypes everywhere. Yeah, no, definitely. Uh, yeah. Even with my children, you know, it's like, well, I can tell you the things I've done in my life that have been amazing and not nerdy, you know?
Yes. But I'm still happy to call myself a nerd, you know, I love numbers. That's me. But I've done a lot of things that aren't nerdy, too. Yes. Yeah, that's right. I know. My daughter was amazed the other day when she found out I've jumped out of a plane.
And she's like. Cause she asked me if I'd ever done anything dangerous, and I was like, well, depends what you call dangerous. And I was like, well, I jumped out of a plane, but I was strapped to somebody else, and they had a parachute, and so did I. So, you know, like, is that still dangerous?
And she's like, yes. I was like, okay. But then I'm like, if she told me she wants to jump out of a, like, do some skydiving, I'd be like, I'm not sure how happy I'd be about that, but, you know, I've done it, so I can't say anything. Yeah, yeah.
Your past can come back and bite you. Uh, so tell us a little bit about the journey of the. Of the winery as well, because that's also helped, I think, solidify in your mind what you ended up, what you're sort of pursuing now because you then used skills again, transferring skills across things.
Yeah. So, to be honest, the winery was really my husband's passion. Um, he has an amazing palette and has done wine show judging and what have you. Just. Just came into it from a consumer perspective. You know, just loved wine and, you know, um, the appreciation of wine, you know, the different flavors, the way the soil, the vintage, the aspect on the slope, you know, how that changes the end product.
You know, just, um, so he sort of, from a consumer perspective, was just engrossed in it for many years. So we had been going to the Barossa. Well, he'd probably been going for close to 20 years. I'd probably been going 15 years. Um, like, we went to lots of other wine regions.
Um, but the barossa was always the one we loved. I agree with you there. I've been to Italy. I've been to Napa. Yeah. Barossa, for me, is still the best for reds. Yeah. But also, from our perspective, the community down there, it's really a community of farmers and, ah, people who take the produce and make something.
It's still very small community. So we built up a lot of really great relationships over the years. And so the whole idea started out one night after a few drinks of a good Barossa red, that one of our growers, we were talking and he said, oh, you know, we should make a sparkling shiraz.
And so he gave us a gave. Six months later, he, uh, called my husband and said, I've got a barrel for you. And Brett thought, oh, dear, what am I going to do with this? And so he sort of worked out, okay, this is how we're going to make that for a few years.
Uh, uh, we just were making things for fun with the growers. Uh, but then my husband continued with the management consulting when I stopped with the children. And we were actually, um, living, um, up in Singapore at the time. And he had, um, risen to a really high level with our company, with the company we'd worked for, and ended up deciding, you know, this is enough for me.
Um, again, had something that he could go to, so it wasn't like he wanted to leave. And just, what am I going to do now? Yeah. Um, and so we, at that point, we turned it from, this is a fun thing that we do and we just share with friends into, okay, this is going to become, um, a lifestyle decision for him, um, you know, to leave corporate world.
And, you know, he said, I can't see myself doing this when I'm 75, the corporate life. But I can still see myself with some maybe physical labor help, um, but I can see myself hosting wine dinners. So he sort of chose at that point to follow his passion. And, uh, yeah, so I still had small children at the time, so, uh, uh, I supported him with that.
And, uh, he's very big vision and, um, ideas and he's obviously got the wine knowledge, um, my skillset. And the thing I like is everything that is, that runs the business. So, um, you know, the leadership, the people, management, the operations, you know, how we're actually running the winery and the vineyard, effectively, the numbers, uh, all of that.
So I was able to support, uh, him, um, by doing that, uh, while I was still supporting the children as well. Yeah. And how did you find just before we sort of move on to what you're doing now, but how did you find working as a couple? Because that's, that's, uh, I can't even imagine working with my husband.
Uh, yeah, we, uh, it's, it's been bumpy at times. Um, but ultimately, that's a really interesting question. Um, I think the thing is, the relationship always came first. And in the majority of times, um, I guess I took the position that it's his business. Um, and so whilst I can't necessarily always see the vision and sometimes I vehemently disagree with things and made my feelings known, um, ultimately it's his choice and his business.
It does impact the family finances because that's now, um, our primary source of income. M so I guess I trusted in him that, um, he would make it happen or else we'd close it up shop and he'd go back to corporate work. Um, but by taking that approach, I guess, uh, um, the story of the boy who cries wolf or whatever it is, I cherry picked what, um, battles to take on, which I guess is a good parenting one, too.
It's like picky battles. So that if I was coming to him with something that I was quite concerned about. Yeah. Then he was like, oh, okay, this I need to look at. I need to listen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I still didn't always get the outcome that I wanted, but, um, you know, I learned not to, you know, sky's falling chicken little with every, everything that goes wrong.
Yeah, yeah, that's right. And I think in business in general, because there's always more things to do and more problems to solve than we've got capacity to solve. And sometimes we bring in consultants and other coaches and advisors to help us solve those problems, but we still have to pick which ones that we focus on.
Um, and because of your experiences, both within the management consulting space and then running your own business, um, how do you now, what do you then do now? With clients and um, what do you like to work on and how do you see the value that you add to your clients?
Uh, yeah, so just to finish off the life story, uh, I think I mentioned my daughter is finishing school. I've still got a son. So, um, my need to be a very involved parent is, um, um, reducing. Ah, as much as I'm still supporting them and the winery, a lot of the operations are all set up.
Um, I've got staff in place doing things and so it's allowed me to still, um, have a, a director role and a support role for the winery. And I still get to enjoy the, uh, results of the wine. Um, but it's allowed me to step back to, um, you know, I guess that, that problem solving and learning that I love.
So being able to get back to what I was doing with, with corporate. So, um, but now on a smaller scale. So really looking at supporting small businesses, um, that, uh, you know, are often started because somebody has a passion, you know, in whatever it is. For my husband, it was wine, you know, for you, it's, you know, supporting women around, you know, their money stories and what have you.
Um, you know, if there's a lady that I'm talking to at the moment who runs a french language school, you know, um, somebody has a passion for something, not a passion to do the day to day admin and operations of running a business. And there's lots of things we need to do, you know, in terms of setting up the business.
You know, in small business, we don't hire very often, so it's really hard to get good skills in hiring staff. If you only hire somebody twice a year or something like that. Um, you know, or, you know, performance management for staff or, you know, in a manufacturing business, you know, how do you actually optimize your processes running through from, you know, design to fulfillment?
Um, yeah, so many aspects of a business that aren't actually making the product or delivering the service that we love. Um, so that's the sort of stuff that I love. So, yeah, and we constrain ourselves by not getting those processes and systems in place. I've got, um, a friend who, she wants to stay small but still grow and not necessarily hire staff.
However, you can't do that unless you have things automated or you've got a system for things and just having it in your head's not enough. Because even for myself, I do some things repetitively, but if I haven't written it down, I'm still, like, even this morning, just as a sidebar example, I was like, I'm making bread.
I'm going, I haven't made bread in about a week. Did I? What was there? How many grams of water do I use? Just, I'd like this mental blank. And I thankfully had it written down. Yeah. So I could go back to it. So if you even, things like this, if you are, uh, unwell or somebody needs to do something and you're like, oh, you know, I can't do this today, but it really needs to happen.
Here are all the instructions of how to do it. Even if you just need someone to step in, even if they're not employed necessarily, if you have the ability to have somebody come in and do something for you, you've got to have those things. And if you want to hire somebody, oh, my goodness, you absolutely need to have it all written down because otherwise, how are they going to know what you want them to do?
Yeah. And as a business owner, unless you set things up that way, you can never have a holiday. Yeah. You've just created a business. Yeah. Either the business stops and pauses for two weeks while you go away, or you need to have something in place. Um, you know, the thing I always said when we were setting up selladoor, you know, it's like I need the process and the procedures and the structure set up so that if.
Cause I'm not a wine person. I love wine, but I'm not an expert. If I need to drop in and run cellar door for the day, what's the half an hour that I need to look at, review, whatever, so that I can do a, uh, 70% to 80% job on that day.
And there's so many wonderful tools these days that make that process easier. It's not like you need to sit down and write a standard operating procedure, uh, boring things. You know, you grab an iPhone, you know, you, you record a 60, uh, second video of how do you light the fireplace in the cellar door?
I don't know how to do that, but I watch a 62nd video that's, you know, on a Google Drive and the fireplace is lit. Yeah. Because this is the other thing someone can show you. Like, I'll show you how to do it nearly. And you don't have to use that knowledge for six months.
You're like, well, I don't remember anymore. Whereas the video can stay there and you're like, oh, that's right, there's a 62nd video. I'm just going to watch that again to refresh my memory so I don't blow the place up. Yeah, yeah, no, we'll have everybody freezing in solidor. Yes, because you're like, I'm sorry, I don't know how to, it's like, um, my husband's got this like fancy coffee machine, which, I don't know, he showed me how to use it, but then, you know, months will pass, and then someone comes over, he's not there, and I'm like, they're like, oh, can I have a coffee?
Because they see this fancy coffee machine. I don't know how to use it. Sorry. If you do, go for it. So. But yes, if there was a quick video or a list of instructions, and I still remember, even years ago, my grandmother was about 85 when she got into computers.
I had to write out so many instructions, which I taped to her desk to help her learn how to use something. And it literally is effort once and it's there. So, I mean, you can still review them and so forth as well to make sure that they're still relevant.
But I think what you do is brilliant because so many people ignore this part and their businesses suffer as a result. Yeah. And then. Sorry, m. No, no, go ahead. No, no, you go, you go. I was just going to say there's also the, the balance, you know, because one of the objections to writing out, you know, standard operating procedures, I hate that word.
But yeah, you know, the boring stuff. Um, there also needs to be a balance with, um, giving staff members, um, the autonomy and the freedom to have some creativity in their role. Because if everything is just totally, you know, you know, scripted, um, you either need to hire very carefully for that.
So that you hire a person who doesn't want, you know, they might have other things going on in their life, and they just want, okay, for this 4 hours a day that I'm working, I, uh, want it simple. And, you know, or, you know, if you've hired, depending on the role, if you hire somebody that wants more sort of growth in their role, you need to make sure that you've got the position and the, you know, the business structure and operations for them to have some freedom and autonomy and feel like they're contributing to the business overall.
And that's a really good point, too. I've actually had this conversation with a few people in the last week, which was very much about because, uh, everybody's talking about Vas. You know, everyone needs to hire a va. I was like, well, not necessarily if you, because if you want somebody who literally just follows some instructions, then perhaps.
But if you want someone who value ads or they have customer service facing. You need somebody, perhaps with a different personality, or, uh, then it really depends on, well, what do you need? What is the problem that you're trying to solve, and what do you want this person to help you with solving it?
Is it just tasks or is it adding some personality? Is it. You need to be flexible with the delivery of this, because if not, there was that movie years ago with, um, Judy Dench playing in, was it the best exotic Marigold hotel? And her husband had just passed away and she was trying to get access to the Internet, and she had this person on the phone with a script who was just arbitrarily following it, even when she'd said, my husband's just died, so I can't get the account holder on the phone.
This person just followed the script and you're like, oh, my God. Um, but that's. So, again, what do you need them to do? What's the position? Make sure it suits them and make sure they have the personality fit. Like maybe an oBm, like if you're an online business or you want a service manager, custom service manager.
But they have to be prepared to do some admin, potentially as well. If you're a small business, people have to be multi wear multiple hats. But yeah. So it's very important to be clear on what that is. Yeah. And I think that's one of the challenge of small business.
You know, it's not until you hit a critical mass that everybody's role can be purely, you know, this is my role, you know, and I think it's a good thing for business owners to do is to actually, well, uh, I certainly advocate this, is to be talking to your staff and really getting to know, um, what their skills are, what they love doing and where do they want to go.
Because just because somebody is, you know, a salesperson, if they have an interest in graphics or something like that, uh, they may be able to do some of the social media work, you know, where your, you know, your marketing person may not be as interested in the graphic side of things.
They might like the copywriting side of things. So looking across your team for where can you find the skill sets of, uh, and I think the other good thing these days is, uh, with the whole gig economy, or whatever you want to call it, where people will work in a fractional role or in, um, a part time role, it allows you to get some of those specialist skills to help you grow, to then reach the point that you can then hire full time for that role.
Yeah, and that's another really good point, too. It's funny, I've only heard that word fractional in the last, maybe year or two. Um, but since I've been hearing, I was like, the more I like the idea of it. So I've heard about like, fractional CEO's, fractional CFO's, or fractional coos, which is probably more the space that you would be in where you come in and then you help set things up and you run with the business part time.
So you might have multiple people that your Coo is for. Um, but then you get them. If they only want to stay that way, then they can stay. If they then want to grow, or the business is growing to the point where they can hire full time, then you're like, okay, I've set everything up for you.
You hand over to the full time employee, and then you go off and help someone else. And I think that's, it makes it a lot more flexible. For like, for instance, I was a management consultant as well, and I loved the variety that came with it. Staying in one role used to bore me, and I used to love being able to go, oh, here's a problem, let's fix it.
And then once you've fixed it, let's move on to the next problem. It's a little bit like, ah, you know, like a bee on a flower. But some people like to just stay there and run the process again and again. I was like, yeah, I like to set up the process.
I don't like to sit with it forever. Yeah. So, you know, then you. But you can actually then benefit from that and allow people to really lean into what they're good at. And sometimes you don't know what that is until you start doing it. Yep. Yep. And people change and businesses change.
So, you know, it's even, once you get to the business, to a certain point, you know, then the need for more people or, you know, you add a new, you know, product line or you, um, take on a new market and suddenly everything's up in the air again, and you need to get everything set back up again.
Yeah, that's it. And there's another aspect, which I found out about you not that long ago. Um, and if anyone, and I'm pretty sure m most of the listeners to this podcast have heard of Donald Miller and have heard of Storybrand, so kylie has become certified in story, which I was like, oh, my God, that's really amazing.
So it was, it was. No, it's a blueprint. Was it storybrand? So I'm actually getting myself muddled now. No, that's all right. Uh, it's a business made simple. Business made, yes. Yeah. So story brand is very much about that marketing story for your business, um, whereas the business made simple.
And I think Donald Miller's just, um, introduced a new one, which is, um, the small business flight school, our flight plan. Um, so both of those two are, uh, centered around using an airplane as the model for a business. Um, and I guess when I was sort of looking at transitioning into, um, consulting or coaching, I was sort of trying to come up with my own model for how do I piece things together.
And I've loved Donald Miller for years, and so when I saw the airplane, I was like, that is so good. Um, you know, um, yeah, so just, just encapsulates things really well. Um, so, yeah, I decided to go ahead and get certified, um, to be able to use his, uh, framework, because I thought, I'm not going to come up with anything better than this.
This just, uh, you know, just explains the whole aspects of business. And actually, for me, because, um, don's, uh, come from the, the marketing and the sales side of things. Um, his model is probably a little bit lighter on in the operations side of things, which is actually where all of my expertise is.
So it's actually sort of melded together well, with, um, you know, the expertise that I've got through from him and then supplementing with my own. Yeah. Which is brilliant. So is it mainly product based businesses that you would be able to help or could you help service businesses as well?
Absolutely. Um, 80% to 90% of business is probably similar across a lot. I mean, I have particular, um, expertise in manufacturing and in particular food and beverage manufacturing. Um, but as I said, the french language, um, school lady. It's the same sorts of things in terms of talking through what your customer acquisition channels, what's your talent acquisition channels, fulfillment processes, you know, the specifics are different, but the strategy you need to go through and the thought process you need to go through is the same across the board.
Yeah. And I think it's a really interesting space because there aren't many people, because, to be honest, for a lot of people, like, oh, that sounds boring and like, yeah, but it's so, uh, valuable. And I think, I think in a way, because I do something similar, but specifically related to the finances and the money side, it's sort of systemizing it and shining a light on it.
And I think in a way we're kind of, uh, in that area of business, which is super valuable, but not everybody's necessarily recognized the value of just yet. But it's going to come because you can't sustain a business without that visibility in the systems. And like you said, piecing all those bits together so that you can run a business and not just have a job that you've got for yourself where you can never take a break.
Yeah. And, you know, the money side of things that you're doing is amazing, um, because I was talking to somebody the other day and, you know, we're both in sort of business strategy and just saying, if you can manage your cash and manage people, you're most of the way there, because if your focus is on those two things, how do I, you know, have sufficient cash?
Because if I don't, I'm going to blow the business up and how do I care for my people, um, and people also being suppliers, customers and what have you, if I don't do that, I'm going to blow the business up. So if you can keep your eye on those two objectives, manage the cash, manage the people, everything else sort of funnels into that.
Yes, no, absolutely. So, yeah, we're a match made in heaven. We should just take the show on the road. Yeah. I think that the interesting thing coming back to what you were saying though, is most of the time in any business people say, I just need more sales. Yeah.
You know, when you say, what's your problem? I need more sales. Yeah. Um, which sometimes comes back to, I need to manage my cash flow better. Uh, not necessarily more sales. Um, but, um, if, I guess if all the focus goes into, I'm going to do more marketing. Do more marketing.
So that'll create more sales. If everything underneath is a mess, uh, you're just pouring money into the marketing and the sales and you're going to. Blow it up because everything will just fall out the bottom because you can't fulfill it. Where's the nurturing that you're going to do of your people, of all of the people coming into the business and the people running it?
And then where's the nurturing of all the money that you're going to make from all of this? Because otherwise it'll all just go everywhere and you don't know anything about anything. Yeah. Because marketing and sales cost money. So, uh, you need to make sure it's a big expense and should be a big expense.
As long as you've got everything else dialed in to support the. Add more, uh, gas into it, you want everything else to, uh, follow along. Absolutely. So how do people find you, find out more about you and how can they work with you if they would really like to?
Uh, yes. Instagram is my main platform m. Uh, so the business is taste business success, but Instagram is taste biz success. Yep. I'll put the links in the show notes for anyone as well. But yeah, yeah, so, um, otherwise website is the same. Um, so, but yeah, reach out and we can jump on a call.
Um, and taylor, I think one of the most valuable things to do is, ah, a half day or full day, um, business strategy session. And coming up towards the end of the year is a really good time to do that, to actually think what are the most important things that I need to be working on, my team needs to be working on to set myself up well for the next year.
It's so easy to be just caught on the hamster wheel of I need to put a new social media post out and I need to fix this, and that customer's not happy. And just taking half a day or a day out. And I think I've said it to you before, another saying that I love is that you can't, um, read the label from inside the jar.
And I think that's the value of having somebody else come in. Big companies will have a board of directors because they're on the outside, but close. Yes. And can ask the objective questions. And so I think that's sort of the real value of a strategy session like that, is to just uncover the questions and the answers that you need to be able to go forward.
Absolutely. Because we're nearly halfway through the financial year, and it's a matter of then going, okay, we don't want to get to January and go, okay, so what am I doing now to really have I achieved my goals from the last six months? M. What am I. Yeah. It's the time people reflect, and doing it in January is a bit late.
It's a really good time to do it now, before Christmas, to actually, you know, get started on things. Yeah. Oh. So I love. I really, I'm such a fan. Like, the more I talk to you, the more I realize, oh, my goodness, I'm wonderful, human, and really, really smart and great at what you do.
Absolutely the same. I love hearing about what you're doing with, uh, you know, so many. Unfortunately, women, uh, have big number blocks and, um, and money blocks, you know, right back from, you know, when you're doing times tables in school. Uh, so the work you're doing to actually help women, uh, understand the numbers of their business and their life, uh, in a way that's not confronting, um, and overwhelming.
Uh, yeah. Is so valuable. Thank you very much. Mutual admiration. So I will put the links to how you can get hold of Kylie in the show notes, and, yeah. Enjoy the rest of your week.
