I am. Welcome to this week's episode of Money with Alpha. I'm very excited today to welcome Cassie Dipman. Welcome. Thank you, Alpha. Wonderful to be here. Yes. Oh, I've been looking forward to this and I am going to do a little bit of reading because I have your bio here. So I will introduce you formally and then we'll just get stuck into some conversation piece because Cassie and I have met through mums and business networking, first of all, and then now we're in the same sort of coaching mastermind group. And it's, it's, it's such a wonderful connection when you get to sort of go on a journey with somebody with their business and you hear about their life and all of that too. So Cassie founded GrowWell Financial. She also works with her husband, which is something I find. I was like, I couldn't do that. I really admire that. And she created the brand with the goal of helping entre empower women take control of their finances, to feel understood and heard within financial transactions and to support those that desire more stability and growth from their money. And she wants to turn what can be an overwhelming process into a transformational experience that leaves her clients in control and with a true sense of financial wellness. Oh, I love all of that. So in your own words, I mean, this, this is all tremendous. And how, how are you seeing it play out and how did you get into this space in the first. I know there's a little bit more in the buy you sent me, but I'd love to hear it in your own words, your journey. Yeah, absolutely. Well thank you, Alpha, for inviting me on to share my story and also give your listeners some little tips. But I started working in. So I've always loved numbers. Numbers is something that just makes sense to me. And so leaving high school studied business and accounting but worked out very, very quickly that I could absolutely never be an accountant. I did like, work experience with my auntie who was an accountant. And, oh my gosh, I talk way too much for an accounting office. And so I, while I was studying, I actually got a job in the bank. So I've worked in one of the big four banks in Australia for a really long time. And that was kind of the breadth of my career. And the, the joy of banking is that you get to use all your finance and accounting knowledge, but you get to talk to people most of the day. So it's brilliant. And the other great Thing about working in a bank is that you get exposure to lots of different types of aspects of the financial, like financial management. So I spent some time in private banking, which was really excellent. And then spent a lot of time in retail banking. That's kind of where my heart was. So in retail banking you do get to deal with clients mums and dads, people who are starting their own businesses, all like, kind of the breadth of clients and your ability to really help them through some really big decisions that they've got in their life. I often say to clients, even now that when they are buying a house or they're borrowing money to buy a business or start a business or expand their business, some of the biggest decisions they'll probably make in their life and some of the biggest things they'll ever spend money on in their life. And it's really cool to be part of that journey. Yeah. Also put them up, like, set them up for success with it as well. So really simple things that you can do when you're borrowing large amounts of money that make a huge difference over the 30 years that you have that loan. Oh, that's exciting. We will explore those. But yes, I wanted to touch on that. It's an interesting sort of phenomena in this, in this world. Like I've only ever known one person who saved up her entire life and then when she retired at 65, she bought a property with cash. Yeah, I know. I was at the time, I don't think I really understood the significance of that. But when I looked back on it, I was going, wow, that's a ton of discipline that she had. Because a lot of us don't and we don't necessarily have the time to wait. And also you would have seen. I I'd like a little bit of your perspective on this too. Like the property market is just going nuts. You know, the, the prices. If And I think there's a lot of FOMO that goes with it as well. If I don't get in the market, I'm going to miss out and I'm never going to be able to afford to go in it, even though it doesn't feel affordable. Now how do you see that kind of mindset? Because as a, as a, like a homeowner buying into a home, it's a very emotional thing. Buying an investment property should hopefully be less emotional because it's for an investment. But when you're buying a home, so you've got emotions. But at the same Time you need to try and get a good deal and you need to sort of make sure you're not overpaying either the loan interest and also for the property value. What's. Just to explore that a little bit first. How do you see that sort of behavior, the beliefs, the mindset and all of that play out in your interactions with your clients? I think the biggest thing for clients that I work with, it's about not like it comes back to knowledge, is like that knowledge is power. And so really positioning them well with the knowledge and the data that supports those decisions that they're going to make. So we always start I mean, we always start with what, that, what it is that they want to achieve, what is the goal that they have and it can look like. I mean, I spoke to a young, a young girl just this week and talking about what her goal with regards to their first home was and wanting a bit of a backyard and it needed to be a house and like, how many bedrooms and getting a good understanding of what that goal looks like, what areas they're thinking about, but then supporting it with the data that brings that back into reality and really having a conversation about if that's realistic. Yes. From an affordability perspective. So no point buying a house and having this wonderful home if it's not affordable for you. Yes. And clarity is really interesting one because that is like the first step for everything. What do you want? Why do you want it? I explore that with my clients all the time. When it comes to money, like, what do you actually want money for? And I think most people just haven't thought about it because, like, well, a, they just go, well, I need money. We all need money, don't we? But why do you want it? And same with property. Oh, we all have to buy a property. And you're like, well, what do you want it for? Like, what kind of property? I I had a friend years ago who bought this amazing, big fancy house and then after about six months was actually quite unhappy. And I was like, what's, what's the matter? You've got this amazing big house. And she's like, well, it's just the three of us. It's too big, it's too much to take care of. And I don't have a garden. I was like did you want a garden? She said, yes, I'd really love to have a veggie garden. Did you know that when you bought the house? And she's like, I hadn't really thought about it. So I think it was just such a mechanical. Like they were looking at so many other things, but not the ultimate, well, what do I really want? Yeah. So I love them. So often, actually, you'd be surprised how often people buy things and then they come back and they go, actually, this is not really what we have in mind. Or they buy what they think they want, but then they work out. It's really like, what they have to give up to have it is not worth it. Yes. And the stress and pressure, I've seen that happen as well, where they've overextended themselves. And I remember talking to someone once, she was literally, like, sweating, you know, and like, shaking with the pressure of the debt that they were under. And I was like, whoa. Okay. So that was. I was like, you definitely need to, like, refine. So having somebody who works in the finance space who's actually compassionate and thoughtful in that way is really important. Yeah. And that's probably one of the. I mean, you asked me why, why I started. Or why I got into it, and that is probably one of the biggest things. Having worked in finance for such a long time in retail banking, there is quite a lot of women. But as the further you get up in, in finance, the less women there are and we bring a different. A different element to the conversation with clients. So one of the reasons I started my own business was really to have a place where clients could, could feel heard, they could feel like what their goals and their, Their ambitions were, was key to what we were delivering, rather than it being the other way around, around money and transaction. Yeah. So you sort of advocate for them if they can't, or help them clarify what they want to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's awesome. So is that why you since started your own business, is to have that sort of flexibility and freedom to work with the sort of clients that you wanted and. Yeah, absolutely. So I was totally twofold at the time of starting my business. I had a very young family and I definitely wanted to not be working 60 hours a week. So that was, that was definitely in there. But at the time of starting the business, I was sort of reflecting on did I want to stay in finance? Id gotten a package from my employer, which was wonderful. And so I did have an opportunity to sort of go, is there something else that I'd like to do? Having worked in. In the same industry for 20 years, and actually I went through a bit of a period of like, self discovery. Self discovery. And I came back to. Well, I actually love money and I love helping clients, and I just want to do it my own way, really. So then I started my business and I haven't looked back. Really? Yes. It's interesting that the identity we have as a woman changes so much when we have our first child that you're kind of like, I don't feel like I'm the same person anymore. And it's amazing how many life, career, business, pivots, changes, rebirths, I've seen as a result of that. And it's. It's interesting because we. Our identity, our previous identity is gone. We can't be that person we used to be because we've got this little life depending on us. But then you lose your identity at some point because you're kind of like, well, I'm not just the mom. I still want to be me, but I'm not the me that I was. So who am I? Yeah, it's. It's. It's something we, like, we all absolutely go through it. And even if you wanted to be what you were, you. You literally can't. Like, it's impossible. And if you were to try and do it, I think you just have to give up too much. Yes. You have to. It just that you feel. I, like, I kind of get the sense that you almost feel torn in half. Like you couldn't be both. Yes. Pulled. I mean, I was a consultant before I had my daughter, so of course I definitely couldn't do that. There is no way I could be jumping on a plane every week and traveling places and getting up at 4am and doing this. I'd be like, hole. There was no way. No, exactly. My. My entire world had to change and shift dramatically. I had a question in my head. Now I'm sure it'll come back to me. I just think it's so cool that we get to choose that now. Like, I mean that we've got to a point where that is like, you can go, okay, well, I'm going to do something different. And that's. And that I get the sense that that's almost seen as. It's brave. It's super brave. But it also, like, it's. It. There has value in it and there has resonance from people you talk to who are doing similar. Yeah, it's much more accepted. Much more accepted. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That was the question I was going to ask you. How did your husband get involved with it all? Was he always in the finance space. And how do you guys work together? Yeah, well, dynamic happened. He, yeah, we met while we were in the same bank. Like banking's just in our family. So we worked together for a long time in our previous life as well. So that's probably how we can work together because we have worked together previously. So going into, I suppose this time around we, we knew what to expect in a lot of ways. But my business just grew and I, I couldn't, I was finding it difficult to balance the amount of time I had to spend at home with the kids and growing the business. And so we just got an opportunity to, for him to join the business and now we kind of try and split both roles so we get the best of both worlds, which is really. It'S so special for him too because I, I feel like. I mean, there's sort of a natural nurture, you know, versus provider relationship that does tend to happen because, you know, nobody else can breastfeed the baby. So in the beginning, it has to be, you know, like, weighted in the mother's side for taking care of the young. But I feel like some dads would like to be a bit more involved. But, you know, especially if mum is. Is not working or is working part time or whatever, somebody needs to bring in more of the money. So it does tend to unnaturally happen. So I think it's a beautiful balance that you guys have managed to find. Two daughters, and we actually managed to do it for both. So with Lily, our first, I only took six months off work for her, which was why I wanted to do things really differently. When we had Ruby and then Brett had 18 months at home with her when she was little, so he actually had more time with her when she was little than I did. And then when we had Ruby, it switched around. I had 18 months home with her not working, which was phenomenal. And now we kind of try and split it because I think the thing is, because we both had. Had that time, we both really value that role, so. And you understood what each was going through, because I think that's the other thing too. Unless you have that primary carer role where you are the point person for everything. If someone hasn't done that for an extended period, I mean, they might be able to manage it for a weekend here or there. But unless they do it, like on mass for days and months at a time, they have no idea that pressure. Oh, my gosh. And I think as they get older, it just changes and it gets like I. When they're little, like, they have, like, basic needs that you have to fulfill on a time, like almost like a timeline. As I get older, the needs change, but they're almost just as demanding. Oh, yeah. And then their personalities come out as well. So it's no longer. I've put an outfit out for you, and you're like, oh, no, no. My daughter this morning, she rocks up with a T shirt on and her pajama pajama shorts. And I was like, oh, well, you're half dressed. She says, no, mama, I'm going to wear these because there's no uniform at my daughter's school, so. So she's like, I just want to wear my pajama shorts today. I was like sure, whatever. She's at school half in her pajamas. Okay. Theyve got donuts on them or something like that. Anyway. So. Yeah, so the thing. Yes. The conversations change. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So what I know leading up to this I asked you sort of to come up with some of the pitfalls that you could identify that you see happening regularly and what people could do to try and prevent them happening or overcome them once they do. So could you share some of those please? Yeah. So just to give some context, I tend to do mostly home lending or commercial lending related to property. So really thinking about those bigger transactions that clients are going to head into and probably the biggest pitfall that I see, clients who approach us and have a, have a goal or have a desire to achieve something is, is that lack of preparation that they put into it. And so when I'm talking about lack of preparation it changes depending on if they are sort of employed or self employed. Probably the preparation when you're self employed is even more important because I say to clients all the time like as a self employed person, if you're going to use a normal, like a normal lender then you really have one opportunity each year to kind of set your financials the way they need to be to borrow large amounts of money. So home loan, you pay slip. Yeah, a large amount of money and you've got that one time of the year when you do your tax that kind of like sets the tone for the next 12 months. And yeah in 12 months time we'll have another opportunity. But planning what that needs to look like well ahead of time helps immensely. And so you. I do see clients that come to you and they can't do what they want. So straight away they need more time to those numbers to be where they need to be. So the preparation in that way also the. So with lending there are lots of options particularly for self employed clients with regards to the way that they can borrow. But some of those ways do require additional preparation. So things like being BAS registered. So if you are going to sort of have a business that's going gangbusters but it's early days, having BAS registration, having it early on, it's really, really helpful for exploring some of those other options. Also if you want to borrow, you're going to need to borrow in your business. BAS registration is really important for that too. So that's the type of preparation and also tax. So having your tax up to date paid, not outstanding planning for that. Yeah, I cannot stress how important that is. I suppose From a lending perspective, but also from a business longevity perspective as well. Yeah. Putting money aside for tax, it's such a simple thing, but it's something I see that's not done well often. Partly because I don't think people know, well, how much do I put away? It's like. Well, it literally is a percentage. You, you just. Whatever revenue you have, or you can, you can do it on a monthly profit basis and just take a percentage of that and put it in a separate account. Don't even. It's not your money anymore. Put it away. And so that when the tax bill comes, it actually surprises me how often I have clients come to me and their tax bill is a surprise. But you're doing a baz every quarter. It should not be a surprise. Your accountant should be prepared, like checking in with you to make sure you're putting that money away, making sure that you know what tax your requirement is at the end of every quarter. So it just should be a mechanical process. But it's often not because we're putting everything we have back into the business as well. Yes, but it's not your money anymore, especially if you're making a profit. Yeah. You, you need to be putting it aside. Yeah. And the thing I find, the thing I find with business owners, particularly new business owners, where their business is growing and where tax becomes a big issue is where they're not paying wages. That's kind of where it pops out. Because if you do start to pay yourself wages, and that was one of the other tips I would have, is that knowing your numbers and having that separation between business and personal, super important. And a key part of that is wages. If you're paying yourself wages, then you'll be paying at least a large percentage, possibly a large percentage of that tax obligation on a quarterly basis. So it won't be a surprise at the end of the year. But I do see a lot of clients that don't pay themselves wages, have All mix messed up and then have a big tax bill at the end. But then they're catching their tail. And the problem with tax bills is often it will mean that we can't do borrowing. Yeah. Impact your credit rating too much. Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah. No, and in terms of like deposit levels now, because, you know, it used to always be 20%. That was what I always remember. And then they had this whole low dock thing where you only had to have 5%. Then, you know, we had a bit of a crash in that space a few years back and a lot of lenders pull back. How does that work now? What, what sort of amount do people need to really have? So it's just, I mean there's a lot of these questions that it really just depends on the client situation. As a first time buyer really getting to that 5% is a good goal. There is a lot of help for first home buyers in the market with the government schemes in saying that it does depend on their situation and what they're planning on doing. There is limits and caps and qualifications for those things. But that is a 5% generally 5% plus costs. So it's probably more like 8% is a good goal when you're looking at your first property, when you're looking at your second or upgrading properties generally with like equity that you've been able to gain in your property. And deposit seems to not be such an issue. It's really that first home that is the challenge. And, and saving 20 is impossible. It's not, it's, it's like you'd almost be saving like that lady, you said we, yeah, for 65 years deposit now because the deposits are large. Like if you're looking at a $500,000 property, 20%, that's like a hundred thousand dollars. So yeah, that's a lot of, that's $100,000 plus, plus the purchase costs. Thats a lot of money to save. So it's not really realistic. And most properties these days are a million so. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So but yeah there's good options from 5%. In saying that we have clients that borrow with really no deposit. There's help. Like I think the thing is it's about working through the options. So there's things like family guarantees where if you've got family members who own properties they can help you by providing some equity. There's the government schemes that can help. And then there's other ways. So there's other ways that you can get in as well. It's really good to know that there's there's so much flexibility and options because I didn't used to always be that flexible from, from memory. There's a lot more help. There's a lot more help. And I think there's a lot more acknowledgement that first home buyers, particularly as the market has sort of increased, it is challenging to get in. So as much help as can be available to those people who are trying to get in. I think the biggest thing we can generally find, I tend to find, once I speak to clients and we work through what they are wanting to buy, we can generally come up with ways to get them their deposit done. Borrowing capacity is probably the key to setting their limits and things like that. And and borrowing capacity all comes down to income and expenses, basically. Yes, yeah, no, and, and it's comes back to the money management. So this is why I, you know, we, we sort of connected as well because I was like, well, if you can get your money management. Because so much. There's so much wastage in all of our budgets. And I'm constantly reviewing ads. I literally just did an insurance review. I normally do it in April, May, but this year I did it in January and I saved us over $2,000 by, by making just a few changes to things. And I was actually quite surprised because I'm, I'm pretty onto it. But there's always fat in the budget. So it's about making sure that you strip away as much of that as possible without feeling like you're denying yourself too much. Because if you do, then you're just like being on a diet. You know, we were talking about, we start out really disciplined at the beginning of the day and by the end of the day you're like, oh, where's that chocolate? If we deny ourselves too much, then we're just going to be constantly reaching for the equivalent of financial chocolate. So it's about understanding what's sustainable so that you then actually demonstrate that you can afford to service whatever loan that you can afford. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And and that's probably when I talk about preparation, preparing for those things. And that is about understanding your budget and, and looking at where you can still, still not, maybe not indulge, but still like, have those, have a life in there without sort of going over the top. So just a question for me more, because I'm, you know, unfamiliar with whether things are these days. Are the loan length still 30, 25, 30 years? How. Yeah. And is there a way to shorten it? Sorry? Is there a way to shorten it? Is my question for people? Yeah. So generally 30 years is, is most home loans will be 30 years. Obviously as you start to pay it back each year, it reduces. And that's probably one of the tips I'd say is if you are looking at ever refinancing your loan, making sure you refinance it over the same term that you've got your current loan of. Really, really important. If you are refinancing and extending the term back out, all you're doing is increasing the interest bill that you've got on that loan. So really important to maintain as much as you can maintain the loan term, your existing loan term with regards to shortening your loan term there is lots of things you can do to pay off your home loan sooner. And that's probably the biggest, the biggest tip I have with regards to having a home loan or even a large business loan is making those small changes that can have a huge difference to the large interest bill that you have on your home loan. So for example, if I've got a $500,000 home loan at the moment interest rates around six, six and a half, but somewhere between six and six and a half percent the interest bill is probably going to be 550, 600,000 on that over 30 years. You can heavily reduce that interest component by making some extra repayments using an offset account for your savings and making. So what I, what, what I recommend is making extra payments using an offset account. And then anytime you have any money, new money that enters your household budget. So it could be bonuses, it could be pay rises, it could be tax refunds, gifts, any of those things that are like unexpected your home loan first. So I saw it personally. We used to always like when we got our bonuses each year which is fairly standard and finance most of it would go into our home loan. And then we leave a small amount out for like maybe a treat for the hard work we've done. But, but we always put all of that extra into our home loan even pay rises so you get a pay rise. Lifestyle creep is crazy. Oh my God. Pay rise. Work out what that is in your take home pay and pay half of it. Like you don't have to do it all. Like I'm not saying like put it all in there. You do deserve those little increases. Put half of it into your home loan. You won't even notice it because it's new money. It's not money you're expecting. That's a really, really good point because I see this a lot. And yes, inflation is there. So you get kind of lifestyle creep just by the nature of that. But if you do end up with more, like I think of my 22 year old self versus now. I was probably better at budgeting then because I had less. Yeah. And I had to be better at it. You know, even just to the point where I would go out for, for dinner with friends and I would actually eat beforehand and I might just have a drink there or you know, just not that I'm saying that, you know, as grown ups, we certainly do. It's no longer like backpacking. It might be three star hotels or four. Like you can still kind of keep it within your budget, but not allowing, you know, a 10 pay rise over 10 years to actually necessarily impact the fact that you're like, oh, it's a big bigger handbag. Let's put more stuff in it. Yeah, bigger life, let's put more, you know, crap in it. To be honest, I mean, most of the stuff I look around me, I'm going, why on earth do I have that? And it's interesting because I, I I'm so self conflicted with regards to budget. And I, I don't love that word. Like I've said it before, but I actually hate it. And I don't. It's not something that resonates with me personally at all. I don't use the word budget. Exceptionally good at paying off debt. Right. So I'm a person who, if I have a debt to pay, I am very good at paying, paying that off. And so I almost have to do that to get ahead. Sounds like, it always sounds counterintuitive, but it works really well for me. And then as I've learned through my career about how to get, how to make your money work harder for you, then that's when I started to do those extra things. But I like, I'm was, I'm a person who can't save. I have to just pay things off. That is a really good. Because my, my dad is like you. And my dad was constantly trying to get me to buy property in my 20s to the point where he even put his name on a contract to transfer that contract to me because the real estate agent said she'd tear it up and then rewrite it for me to get me to buy this unit in St. Lucia here. And I was like, dad, I, I'm 20, I think I was 26 at the time. I was like, I don't want to buy a property. And then it took me a while to realize and he actually said he needs to have someone to pay. Like he said he has no discipline. He will pay. A bank though. Like, he will pay. And I was like, well, I'm actually good at saving. Yeah. Like when we bought our house, we had a 50 deposit and we like smashed that thing as quickly as possible. So that's, that's where I am. But you know, the, the, the paying. I hate debt. I really. But for some people it's like yourself, it's what you need in order to get ahead. So you've just got to know yourself. Yes. To understand how you operate and then work with that rather than trying to fight against it and just do what everybody else does. Because you think you have to. Yeah, exactly right. Exactly right. And it's funny, having worked in lending and, and finance for such a long time, I I'm not scared of debt in any way because, because it's, it's so powerful. Like it's a leveraging tool. It's a leveraging tool. Yeah, absolutely. So there's no way with my personal savings I could achieve what I could achieve if I'm comfortable with borrowing money. So getting comfortable with borrowing money is, is a key to, I think a. Key or a growing asset. We spoke about that before we hit record. Yes. I was going to say. So we talk about bad debt, good debt. I'm talking about debt where you're buying an asset that's going to appreciate in value over time. So that could be property, it could be shares. That's a little bit more risky, but depending on the levels it's okay. It could be business. Expansion growth. Like those good business ones, not cash flow business ones. Yes. Yeah, no, it's it was interesting because we talked about cars because I have a few clients who wanted to finance car in their business and you were like, no, I prefer to help people finance things that are going to grow in value. I'm like, right on. I've never had a loan for a car. I never want to have a loan for a car. I'm, I'm content with my little Corolla. It zips around quite nicely. Yeah. And I get it. Like, I mean I help clients that a run business where they have equipment that actually is a business generating. Yes, of course. And I get that that may be very expensive. And to make their business growth, it's got part of their growth plan. They need to borrow money for that. That is brilliant. You might have a fleet of cars that you rent out and that's like, that is your business and maybe you need to borrow for that. Or you're a tradespace and you need a car. It's like your mobile office. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So I think, I think borrowing, borrowing for us, like, so you've just got to look at what's the, what's the purpose and what's the driver behind the desire for it? If it is about growth and you have a clear plan on how that borrowing is going to return more money that it's taking than life. Yeah. If it's not, I do see like lots of clients that have lots of car loans that just hinder whatever else they want to do. Yeah, absolutely. I have one question which comes up quite a lot that I get asked and I'm, I refer people to the experts like yourself to answer it. But I'll ask it now in case other people have that same question is fixed versus variable interest rates. Because obviously there's a lot of cliffs that people have been falling off lately where they've had fixed. And then there's that question of now, oh, should I fix in my interest rate? Are the interest rates going to go up anymore? I think they're going down. So we'll go. There's this constant battle. How, how do you navigate that conversation and what's your opinion on it? Yeah. Okay. So what I would say is no one has a crystal ball, so your chances, it's, it's not exactly like going to the casino and putting your money on black and red, but it almost is because no one really knows what's going to happen. And the other thing I'd say is lenders, banks well, banks particularly have a whole team of people that are setting the pricing in their books and they will set their pricing so they will not lose money basically. So I remember back in, I can't remember where it came from but way back in my career, I remember, I think it was when I was in private bank, they were talking about interest rates the interest rate markets and the long term view of interest rates. And when you look at the very long term are you more ahead on a variable or a fixed. The long, long term view is that historically people have always been better off on a variable rate over the very long term because of those highs and then lows with regards to fixed. Because the problem with fixed rates is you fix at a point in time and then you're stuck in that. Now if you fixing, you're fixing at the moment, depending on what rate you're fixing at you might find that over the next two, three years you might be paying more than you need to because the variable rates have dropped. Yeah. So that's, that's the period where you're paying more. Likewise we've had all These people on. I actually had a customer just last week and they're still on 1.99, just expiring because they've been on it for four years. Like, I was like, that was a good decision. That was a good deal. Yeah. So there's those people who are hitting ahead that way. But historically, long term variable is the market. You're probably going to be better off unless you just make some of those really good decisions. But there is absolutely a place for fixed rates. And the place of fixed rates is if you are a person who needs certainty to sleep at night. So you're not trying to beat the market and not trying to make a better decision. What you're saying is, you're saying I need certainty. It might be for a time in my life because I've got all my other expenses are high and I have no flexibility in my budget. I need to know what my home loan repayment is going to be and that it's not going to change. So I have clients that are fixing at the moment and it is because we are having conversations like they need to replicate their home loan repayment being like a rent repayment where it's not going to change. They're locked in. They know what it's going to be for the next 12 months because that's what's most important to them. If that's not the case, I wouldn't be recommending fixed at moment. I'd be saying go variable, have the flexibility, be able to make extra payments. You have extra money in your budget. So that's going to actually do more good than bad. We are probably fairly close to the top of the curve. If not at the top, hopefully likely that rates are going to go down. But I don't have a crystal ball, so it could be, could go the other way. Yeah, well, because when we, when we did ours, we were variable also because the interest rate was lower at the time But then the interest rate went even further down. So I was actually like, I'm so glad we didn't fix it because we would have not benefited from it going down. And then we just, we were like. And we were one of those ones. We were like, it's going to go up at some point. It cannot stay this low forever. So we were hammering that thing as much as possible. And then when the interest rates went up, everybody was a little bit shocked going, really? Yeah. It couldn't stay there. No, exactly. Right. And that's, I mean it's interesting because I, I tend to, and not at the moment, because we are, like I said, probably pretty close to the top of the curve. But it rates rates historically, like between 4 and 5%. That's normal. So if you're on a rate, or if we're in a rate environment where rates are below 3%, then you need to be budgeting in for your repayments to be at 4 to 5%. Really? Like we're at the top. Like, probably pretty close to the top. Might come. Come back, it's probably going to end up somewhere between 4 and 5. Keep your same repayments if you're used to affording them. Absolutely. That is key. Yeah. Because I think back to like my parents, I remember when the rate started to go up and my mum and dad were like, what's everybody panicking about? We had 13%. Yeah. I mean admittedly the property prices were a lot lower. This was the 80s. But you know, they were like, well I don't know why everyone's panicking because we've been so spoiled with having such low rates for so long. So. And they in, in comparison they haven't. I mean they've gone up enough and admittedly the actual dollar value is a lot higher now. Yeah, I think when, when you look at the number, the percent. I mean one of the measures that they will look at when you're doing lending is debt to income ratio. And it is much, much higher than it has been historically. So people's debt levels to their income as a ratio is, is, is historically at its highest peak. But but it is really important when you are considering new lending that you're looking at sort of worst case scenario repayments and saying well, can I, so I might be able to afford it now, but can I afford it with an increase of a percent or 2% depending on where we're at. And if that figure is looking like it would be tough, then maybe that loan that you're looking for is not actually affordable. Likewise like you said, if interest rates go down, maintaining those repayments because you're already doing it will put you well ahead from a paying of your home loan sooner. Yeah. Because it literally cuts years. I don't think we realize it's, it's not a matter of oh, I'll pay my home loan off, you know, maybe a year earlier. No, no, we're talking like multiple years and tens of thousands of dollars just by paying it off faster. And like little bits here and there. It really adds up over time. Yeah, I mean it's as simple as like, I mean I haven't, I can't do a calculation right now but like 10, even $10 a month, like it seems so stupid stupid that you'd even bother. Yeah, that can save you half a year. Like it's like, well the Money Smart website has some awesome calculators on that. So I'm, I'm constantly on there with my clients going because I want them to play around with it. I was like, okay, here is what this does look at the difference. It's tremendous. Even paying fortnightly, like there was so many little. We always think the big changes need a big change. Yeah. Big changes can come from little actions. Yeah, absolutely. It's funny that you say that because every time I, we, like I said earlier one of the things we used to do was every time we got a pay increase increase, we'd pay our, like we'd increase our home loan payments first. And then when I used to do that, because I was like a person who had to have reward from, from what I did, I'd go and do that calculation and I'd be like, I just saved like eight years of my home life. Yes, yes. But it's important to have that recognition because without it you just feel like, oh, this is never going to end. I'm going to retire and still be in debt. And that that energy also then tends to mean that we don't stick to our budgets because we're like, what's the point anyway? Like, it's, it's uplifting to have. Like you said, knowledge is power. Yeah. And it impacts us in, in such a positive way, then once we know what we're dealing with rather than avoiding it, which I understand why. But it's much more powerful and productive to actually know what you're dealing with. Then you know how far or close you actually are. Yeah, often closer, funnily enough, than we think we are. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So one more thing I want to touch on as well, because we I do a lot with the mindset and we spoke about this before we hit record because I kind of approach you with the concept of like, money stories and you know, the things that we grew up with. And we were both still talking about how you, you know, you didn't feel like you had a money story. And I was like, I feel like there's. There's this sort of expectation that we've all got to have a hard luck story or something that's, you know, that was really bad or, you know, there was some. Something devastating around it. But it doesn't necessarily need to be that way. When do you first remember your, like, the concept of money and how did it kind of feel for you or how do you recollect it, remembering what it felt like? Yeah. Okay. Co. So I I don't have any, I have any bad money, bad money stories. Like And it's funny because I have Having run my own business, I've done coaching and things like that. And it is something that comes up and I'm like, it doesn't really feel like I've got it. Like people would tell me like right yesterday I'm like, I don't have anything to write. But actually interesting the way you ask that question. So my mother so both my father and mother worked when I was. My mother worked from probably when I was about 8 year old. 8 years old. And then she started her own business. So she was the entrepreneurial. But around mid high school, I think like maybe year nine, year ten she would give us a clothing budget for the year. So we used to get $1,000 to spend on whatever we wanted for clothing, shoes, birthday presents if we were going to parties. And we would get that as our budget for the year. So we had to make that work. And that's probably actually my earliest memory of like that money. Yes Being something that you could, could, could use to your, to your design. Yeah. Yes. And I remember within a certain boundary. Yeah I had these shoes that I bought and I just love them. Like they were like leather shoes but they were like brown and green and like I thought they were like the coolest thing ever and that I bought them when I had my, like my clothing budget because they were something that I probably like. Well, I love them. I think if I didn't, if we had, didn't. Had hadn't been given that control, I don't think mum would have necessarily said yes. But she, she was very good. She said like, that's your budget, you spend it. If you run out, that's it, you're done. But it gave us the freedom to actually choose what we wanted to spend our money on as well, which was. Yeah. And I think that that level of. I mean this, to me money is choice. It's not good or bad. You know, it's not, it's not, it's not judgmental at all. We judge ourselves in relation to it. But money itself is, is ag. In that regard. But it's. Yeah, it's interesting because I, whenever we go on a holiday somewhere, I will give my daughter a certain amount of money she gets day to day pocket money and she can add to it. There's certain tasks you can do to add to it. But if we go on like a big holiday, like for instance, we're going over to see family for a month and I'll give her some extra pocket money for that. But I was like that is it, you should. I've never seen her so, like, picky about what she spends it on. And then she's like. And. But then she starts negotiating. She's like, well, Mama, if I get this and could you pay for this bit and I'll pay. I'm like, no, that was your money. I will pay for an ice cream a day and your food and that's it. Yes. Anything else? An entry to things, but, you know, anything else you want, you've got to buy out of that money. And it's really interesting. We were just in, In Thailand for Christmas and we did. I did exactly the same with my daughters. I gave them 300. They had 300 baht each, basically. And that was their spending money. And we hadn't. I hadn't really bought them anything else other than like, just the normal food, things like that. And then this one day I said, okay, you're going to get 300 baht and I'll take you to the markets and you can, you can buy what you want with it. Yeah. And I have one daughter who will ask for things everywhere we go. Like, she wants things everywhere we go. And I give her her $300. She found it so hard to spend that like, when it was her choice. Yeah, it was her money. Oh, my gosh. It was like she was partying with her, like. And then my other daughter, who really doesn't ask for anything, she found it very easy. Interesting to see the difference, the personality. Personality. This is that whole, like, nature nurture thing. People like, oh, it's all, you know, nurture. I was like, well, no, some of it's like, you can have two children brought up the same way in the same household, same gender, because, you know, genders do tend to make a bit of a difference. And I was like. And you'll see the difference. Like, yeah, it was really interesting to watch, actually. And then probably my next money money thing. And it sticks in my head. And it's almost like a pivotal moment was when I was about 25 and I was working in private bank at the time, and I was starting to work with clients who were really, really comfortable with borrowing money and borrowing money to make money. And that was a really pivotal. And I still, I can almost pinpoint the moment in time where I was like, I get this. And it changed my life, basically. Yeah. Yes. It's it's very much when you sort of. When I first read Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Yeah, I think is when I had that revelation because I didn't get that message growing Up. Yeah. My dad was a small business owner but for him it was more like self employed. Like he just, he just bought himself a job basically a well paying job but still a job. And my mum was a school teacher for, for most of her career. So it was ye. It's, it's a, it's a good, it's a concept that when you get it. Yeah. It still has to be aligned with your values and clarity on what you actually want as your lifestyle. But it's still, it's an important one to get. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, fantastic. So how can people find you with the. How's the best way if they want to find out more and potentially want to work with you? How can they do that? Yes. Okay, so I I have, I'm on everything. So we'll put all the links LinkedIn @growwith financial basically. Thats the same website. And just reach out for a chat. I think the big thing with, with any finance and you would be the same as this alpha. That planning piece is huge. So having a plan, even if it is a future goal, knowing what you need to get there is power. So honestly I don't mind talking to people really, really early out into their plan. If they have an inkling that this is something that they want to achieve. Yeah. Reach out and let's put a plan in place around it. It might take you. I have clients that I work with for like two, three. I've only been in business for, it's coming out four years but I have clients. They've been on the journey. Yeah, exactly. So it is a journey. It's like I said, it's probably one of the biggest things. Buying a house is one of the biggest things a person will ever probably buy. It does take time and knowing what you need to do to get there is key. And that's such a refreshing thing to hear someone who works in the finance space say because very much it's very transactional for I think most, most brokers, you know, you want to, you want a loan. Let's have a look. Because I remember just as a sort of a extra segue or sidebar was when we were getting our home loan and we had a neighbor who just gotten into mortgage broking. So we're like, oh, we'll give him a go, maybe we can go with him. He brought in his sort of senior I suppose to help and my, my. I said look, we, we really just want a no frills loan. No fees. No exit fees. Interest rates. Smash it. Smash it. Yeah. So we can smash this thing. He came up with a loan. We could split 10 ways. We could do all. And I'm there just going, I'm sorry. Are you listening to me? I'm like, no, we have a boat. I don't want a jet ski. My car's fine. I just want the house. Like, literally. So in the end, I was just like. I said to the. I was like, I'm really sorry, but unless you can help me with that. So we just went off on our own and did something. But it's really about a simple. Yeah. So having. Having that clarity and having somebody who actually listens and supports you on that journey, I think is tremendous. So thank you so much for being that person. That's okay. I love it. It's It's like helping my clients is my favorite part of my job, so. Yeah, I can see that. Fantastic. And we'll put all of the. The links and everything in the show notes so that you can. If you're driving and you can't write them down, you can still find and talk to Cassie. Excellent. Thank you very much. It has wonderful. And anybody, enjoy the rest of your week, and I will talk to you again next week.
